EP 5: Building Effective Talent Ecosystems

Adriaan: If you don't deliver value, you will very quickly become forgotten in an environment so large. You're not told who to ask. No one tells you how to build a network within an organization. It starts with really just understanding the world you're in and taking the time to understand and unpack it and realize who's who, and then go out and build those relationships.

Lucy: I really wanted to get closer to the fine line between scaling, automating, and offering a really white-glove approach to dealing with people.

Adriaan: "Surround yourself with the right people" is a really fantastic piece of advice that stood me well. It actually ended up making me reassess my life at that point and think, "Am I in the right place?"

Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to another episode of the Leaders in Talent podcast. Today, I am excited to welcome Lucy O'Brien. Lucy is the Head of Talent and Ecosystem for Eight Roads. Lucy advises founders on their talent strategies, helping them to take their C-level and board hiring to the next level, while also building the ecosystem of Eight Roads for their investors, partners, and experts. Prior to Eight Roads, Lucy's career spans over two decades in executive search, working at companies like Nestle, Vodafone, Korn Ferry, and Facebook. Lucy, welcome to the podcast.

Lucy: Great to be here. I'm happy that we're finally able to have this conversation together.

Adriaan: Lucy, you have over two decades of working in executive search and then moved to a very different role, actually, as the Head of Talent and Ecosystems at Eight Roads. I would love to zoom in on both your two decades in executive search, but then also on your role at Eight Roads and what your experience has been there so far. But let's first start with your first two decades of experience. You worked in-house at companies like Nestle, Vodafone, and Facebook, but you've also been on Korn Ferry's consumer search team. For you, how stark was that difference between working in executive search in-house and then moving to Korn Ferry's consumer search team?

Lucy: What I learned in-house was that network is your net worth. Getting things done, particularly in global businesses like Nestle, Vodafone, and particularly Facebook, depends entirely on your ability to gain consensus cross-functionally by building trust and demonstrating value up and down the organization. To do that, you've got to have a network. I saw that for the first time in-house and really, truly understood it.

At Korn Ferry, that was amplified. The network was both internal and external. Often I was delivering on large project-based assignments with delivery teams spanning a host of geographies. I was responsible for the delivery of up to 120 hires for some clients; other cases were far more specialized. As you can imagine, the variety of search work I’ve covered over that time has been huge.

I started life focused on difficult-to-fill searches for a small consumer-focused boutique, predominantly focused on buying and merchandising mandates for companies like John Lewis. I actually built out a GM (General Manager) proposition back in 2005, and then I went on to do the same for Asda when they introduced homewares into their stores a couple of years later. I've hired showroom coordinators for the likes of Tommy Hilfiger through to building out Harrods' GM proposition.

So, it's been a real journey from there to then moving into Korn Ferry, where I was working for some of the large manufacturing companies. That then precluded my time at Nestle, which was again, vast. I could be working on up to 70 mandates at any one time, some functionally aligned. If I was working on a finance mandate, for instance, it was across all of Nestle's UK and Ireland business propositions—the likes of Purina, Nestle Nutrition's portfolio, and companies like Jenny Craig.

Later, I led a piece of M&A—which was SMA—which was acquired and transitioned into Nestle Nutrition's portfolio. I led that piece of work as a Recruitment Business Partner. We re-organized the entire team and relocated them to Gatwick. Then I worked on client group relationships like Nespresso, where I managed all of their hiring across HQ and managed two external RPO relationships to recruit all of their boutique hires and their call center hires.

It was a really broad mandate, and then it culminated with my time at Facebook, where I was working on probably some of the most niche search of my entire career for the likes of Nick Clegg's organization, looking for a Director of Board Governance—probably the first of its kind that ever existed. So it's been a really interesting ride, actually.

Adriaan: Yeah. You started off by saying your network is your net worth within those organizations. So how did you go about and develop that network, both internally and then externally during your time at Korn Ferry?

Lucy: It's a good question. I think you've got to understand that if you don't deliver value, you will very quickly become forgotten in an environment so large. You have to deliver value very quickly. I think through having relationships that you can draw upon, you understand what good looks like, but actually, you call upon those that have bigger networks than you do to find solutions.

I'll give you an example. When I was at Facebook, I was working on public policy hiring for the first time in my career. I had a network of people that I called upon in various different geographies who had "ins" into the NGOs and had relationships that I could really leverage to get through to the diplomats and government officials that I couldn't find on LinkedIn. The people that required a bit of handpicking from the market—to get to those people, you need a network. I really realized that for the first time while I was in those environments.

Adriaan: Is it the question of just daring to ask? We're like three or four handshakes removed from anyone on the planet, right? Is it just asking, or is it providing tremendous value on a consistent basis to people even though they don't ask for it? How did you go about building that trust and establishing those relationships?

Lucy: It's knowing who to ask. You're not told who to ask. No one tells you how to build a network within an organization. So I think for me, it's coming in, being curious, getting to understand the organization at a really high level, spending time listening to people, and understanding who's who. Then it's about building the right relationships to get things done. It takes time. It really does take time, but it starts with really just understanding the world you're in and taking the time to understand and unpack it and realize who's who, and then go out and build those relationships. So it starts from somewhere, essentially.

Adriaan: And you said in particular at Facebook, this was important. Is there a particular reason why that was the case or was it just because of the nature of the roles that you were working on?

Lucy: Just a huge organization that was very well networked. And if you think about some of the work I was doing, it was so niche. I had to sit down with the likes of Sir Nick Clegg, have him help me to unpack the environments I was trying to get into to attract the right talent into the organization. It was just so hard to get into that talent without really having a network of people that had come from the right backgrounds and could help me to unpack it.

Adriaan: After almost 20 years, you decided to move to Eight Roads. Tell me a little bit more about your role at Eight Roads and the reason why you decided to move there.

Lucy: My time at The Up Group, where I spent three years just before joining Eight Roads, really got me hooked on the startup and VC-backed ecosystem. I've got two founders at home; my brother-in-law and sister both run successful businesses and they've got a family of three to boot. So I have seen firsthand the pain that founders go through.

I wanted to get closer to an ecosystem that I feel passionately about to get closer to value creation—to really make a difference. As I said at the beginning, network has always been part of my value and it's something that I care about. It’s always been important to my own career. Seeing firsthand, both through my family and through the work that I did at The Up Group, how not knowing "the game" can hold entrepreneurs back, I really wanted to get closer to that fine line between scaling, automating, and offering a really white-glove approach to dealing with people.

Eight Roads came knocking at a really interesting time. I loved the diversity of the portfolio they built and the diversity of the team. I could see a really interesting opportunity to come in and drive value. My role was quite a newly created role, actually. I support our portfolio companies with the "how" as they scale. I advise them on their people strategies, but given my background, my onus is network introductions and community building, which was very interesting to me. A lot of it was new, but a lot of it I can pull from my past experience. I can bring network introductions from my past to get things done quickly. Some of my role is focused on hosting webinars to support group learning, founder development, and building the programs that are going to be of value to them. Everything surrounds network and ecosystem value. As an executive search practitioner, that's where you spend the majority of your time. I've always had the ingredients, I think, to make this successful.

Adriaan: For our listeners that do not know Eight Roads, can you give a little bit of light on what Eight Roads does and what you're known for?

Lucy: I can indeed. We're an $11 billion global venture fund. We invest in companies at Series B onwards typically, and we help them to scale internationally. I think what makes our fund pretty unique is the sheer breadth and diversity of our portfolio, both in terms of domain and geo coverage, but also our team. We typically invest in firms on a pretty agnostic basis: HR tech through to advanced analytics, SaaS, and beyond. We've got about 450 portfolio companies now globally; 60 of those have IPO'd. Many of those are unicorns, including the likes of Alibaba, Toast, and HiBob—one of our superstars in our current portfolio. We're on the journey with founders for the long term. We can be supporting those businesses for 10 years. We want to make sure that we have a host of different backgrounds and perspectives to bring to our companies, and that's where the value of network really comes in.

Adriaan: Help me understand where your role sits in this landscape. You have the investment side, the portfolio companies, and your internal team. Where does your role exist? And did your role really exist before you came into Eight Roads?

Lucy: It didn't exist in the truest sense. We've really truly come in to build something. It's important to realize that everyone who does this role does it slightly differently. We've all got different backgrounds and experience. My background in executive search is very specific to me; I don't have a broader background in HR. So what I've tried to do is really leverage my experience versus trying to build something that is not within my realms of capability.

Where I support our investor teams is through the introduction of the right experts and people who can really support them to get to know markets. It's to help unlock value by helping our investors to understand the companies that we're getting to know—looking at leadership teams in a really deliberate manner to understand what we're investing in. It's to build relationships early on with the companies that we're interested and excited in to help them understand what value creation means at Eight Roads. How can we support you once we've invested? It's not just about the cash injection; it's about everything that surrounds that.

And then beyond that, it's through the right network introductions and through community building, really adding value to founders post-investment, helping them to think about how to build teams in the right way. That's where my background comes in. It's 20 years of pattern recognition. It's giving them a sense of what has worked before for companies at a similar stage of growth, giving them a sense of what hasn't worked before, and introducing experts that can help them to rethink and critically problem-solve the right ways of scaling their teams.

Adriaan: Is there still also some executive search itself involved where you help some of the portfolio companies if the leadership team might not be working out or they need help?

Lucy: Absolutely. I never say "never" to this role. Every single day is different. There are some companies that are really early in their journeys and don't have the budget to pay for executive search practitioners, so of course, I will help. I've got the background they can leverage to do that. I’m regularly making network introductions. It comes from really knowing your ecosystem and knowing your companies well. I spend time on the road; I sit down with our CEOs and CPOs regularly. I hold office hours to try and really understand what's front of mind. Through doing that work and consistently building my network, I can join the two together and make meaningful introductions where they're needed.

Adriaan: So on the one hand, you have future potential portfolio companies where you help investors look at the leadership team, but also make connections for industry experts. Then once an investment is made, you work with the founders, introducing them to Eight Roads and seeing where you can play a role. And also building the community internally. Across a global portfolio of 450 companies, how do you prioritize your time and what does that focus look like?

Lucy: The focus for me really is across our European portfolio, which is 50 companies and growing. I don't spend my time with every single company at any one time. I probably will be deep into, let's say, 10 companies at any one time, which is extremely manageable. That changes and fluctuates.

I start by catching up regularly with our investors and board members to understand what's front of mind within their companies. I use those conversations to really focus my time on the truly tangible results we need to support those companies with, whether it's executive search or advising them to get them thinking about something important in the right way. A lot of it is problem-solving. Having as broad as possible a toolkit is really important because one day I can be asked to support with a board hire, and the next day I can be asked to support with an office move—like, "do I have someone in my network that I can introduce as they're thinking of opening an office in New York?"

Generally, I can get to the right person. I have various WhatsApp groups that I'm a part of. But I think staying focused is absolutely key in this role. There are so many things you could do. You've got to continually challenge yourself to know what is absolutely important and to prioritize your work accordingly. So I start with those relationships, listening to what's front of mind, and prioritize from there. We take feedback regularly from our portfolio. We measure success through an NPS, which we track every year. I'm keen to hear from our founding teams: Are we providing the right value? Do we need to think again about the value we're providing? That helps me to stay on course in terms of what we're actually providing and whether it's actually meeting expectations.

Adriaan: I remember we talked about this earlier at a dinner with a variety of your peers. One topic that struck me is: How do you measure success in your role? Is there a clear answer there yet, or is it the NPS?

Lucy: It can be pretty intangible at times. I think, frankly, it is NPS. It's tracking what's working within those founding groups, taking feedback from partners, and making sure we're providing the right value at a given time. I'm a team of one; I don't have a massive platform to lean on, but I've got a group of 12 incredible venture partners who have all been operators in their past lives and add a tremendous amount of value.

I scale the offering through my broader network where I perhaps don't have the expertise. For instance, partnerships with the likes of Pave who help us with all things compensation, or partnerships with the likes of Pavilion who help us reach out to the best in Go-to-Market talent globally. We’ve built various other partnerships to try and scale what otherwise would be a very small proposition.

I'm generally focused on the topics that are front of mind for our companies, like international scaling. Go-to-Market talent becomes a real focus for me, and I spent three years at The Up Group building Go-to-Market teams, so I naturally have a strong network in that space. I try and lean on areas where I'm naturally best served to support, and otherwise, I leverage my network to fill in the gaps.

Adriaan: You have this incredible vantage point across portfolios, companies, and geographies. From your point of view—being both a Head of TA internally at Eight Roads but also seeing across the portfolios—what role do you see Recruitment/TA playing at the portfolio level and within Eight Roads?

Lucy: At Eight Roads, we believe wholeheartedly in Europe's ability to create and grow global champions. That can't be done without attracting and retaining the best talent out there. The same goes for our team. Actually, as a backdrop to that, the sector's talent gap continues to widen. It won't get any easier.

I think my role is to keep on top of shifting trends, to really understand evolutions in inclusive culture design and what "good" looks like. In this role, it's important to mention that you earn your seat at the table. It starts with listening, getting on the road, building relationships, and spending time. Networks need to be cultivated and nurtured in the same way that people do. People have differing needs as their journeys evolve.

Meeting people where they are and having as broad a toolkit as possible in readiness to solve problems is key. And actually challenging the status quo when it comes to bringing in diverse talent—tapping into broader pools of talent we haven't accessed before. Being aware of how to plug gaps, speaking to experts on the ground in different markets, and understanding how to leverage different talent networks is useful.

Take AI, for instance: Where is the best talent coming from? How do we attract that talent? Who's best placed to attract it—the founder or the CEO? Probably. So let's figure out how to best tell that story and make it a compelling proposition so we can continue to bring the best talent in. The same goes for our team. We're continually investing in champions across Europe. We want to make sure our team brings a diverse range of perspectives and a broad background to continue to solve problems for founders in the right way. Post-investment, we're on the journey with founders for some time. We want to make sure it's a real partnership—a relationship of trust built in the right way from day one. So it comes down to relationships and understanding what's needed to make TA impactful. There's no one-size-fits-all.

Adriaan: Do you have specific examples across your portfolio companies where you'd say, "This is best-in-class"? Companies that are able to retain and attract top talent for specific reasons?

Lucy: There are many. Just to give you a couple of examples, HiBob and AppsFlyer were just named to the Forbes Cloud 100 list—AppsFlyer making its fourth appearance. These are companies that are really catching the interest of a global audience and are well-placed to attract the best talent from around the world. Others are on the "Next 40" subset of tech lists, starting to get interesting traction—Luko, La Fourche, Spendesk in our portfolio. That brand recognition is a hugely important part of attracting great talent. We aim to do the same as a fund. Helping founders make a compelling case in the market to attract the best isn't easy, but having the right story to tell is a really important component.

Adriaan: In the examples of HiBob and AppsFlyer, is there anything in particular that gives them that edge? Is it the people, the timing, the growth? What could other companies learn from them?

Lucy: They have incredible brand recognition. I think they've built incredible teams. If I think of how HiBob has scaled internationally across different markets and still kept a very local feel in individual geographies. When I go into the offices, you really get a sense of a culture that is buoyant, buzzing, connected, and really excited about the mission. For me, walking the halls and really feeling the passion for what a company is building denotes success in having built a great team. Those are the things I look for when I'm out on the road.

Adriaan: And do you then use those learnings across different portfolios?

Lucy: I make introductions to other portfolio leaders who I think have done things particularly well to help other founders think about things in a similar way. We do webinars to share learnings across functional leadership groups and try to learn from each other. That's really important.

Adriaan: Lucy, you've recruited and worked with some of the most ambitious founders, CEOs, and senior leaders. Have you seen any universal traits of people who stood out for you? Why have they been able to be successful in those particular roles?

Lucy: That's a really good question. I think generally it's being best placed to solve the problem that you're solving. It's having a real passion and a real pattern recognition for what you're trying to solve. From a leadership perspective, I think what tends to make a really great leader is agility—the ability to continually learn, the ability to listen, and the ability to instill confidence. Those things are inherently what we look for. But there are a host of things; it's not a one-size-fits-all.

Adriaan: Is there anyone in particular that comes to mind who helped you progress in your career as a leader?

Lucy: Oh, gosh. Many years ago, I read Sheryl Sandberg's book, Lean In, which I found extremely interesting. I never imagined I'd end up working for her as COO at Facebook many years later. Generally, the advice to "surround yourself with the right people" is a fantastic piece of advice that stood me well. It actually ended up making me reassess my life at that point and think, "Am I in the right place? Do I have the right ingredients for success?" I ended up moving to London after reading that book. It had always been part of my plan, but I never imagined I would literally drop everything and make that decision then. So that book had a big impact on me. She gave some incredible advice that has resonated with me to this day.

Adriaan: Do you remember what specifically made you move to London based on that book?

Lucy: It was about surrounding yourself with the right people to be successful. She talked about having the right partner in your life, having the right people to support your success and to lean on when times are hard. It made me really step back and think, "Am I where I need to be?" It was very interesting. There are various others who have inspired me. Daniel Pink's Drive, for instance, talks about intrinsic motivation and how to focus on outcomes that give you freedom over the "how" as you scale your organization. That's been an inspiration as I think about the psychology behind workplace interactions. I do a lot of reading and try to inspire myself by understanding others.

Adriaan: Great. We'll put those in the show notes for our listeners. In your current role, what is something you are working on that excites you at Eight Roads?

Lucy: So many things. Going back to what I was saying before about network creation and value—there's a fine line between scaling, automating, and offering a white-glove approach to dealing with people. That doesn't scale by definition. That's the nut I'm now trying to crack: What can be scaled and productized while continuing to offer something to a broad portfolio geographically and domain-wise? Founders who have done it before versus those who haven't. It needs to feel truly bespoke and give the breadth of support fundamental to their specific use cases. That is something that is continually challenging me. Everyone has a different requirement at a given time. We're on the journey together, so it's about what we can productize to make the most impact and help me better leverage technology. Those are things I really want to crack in the year ahead.

Adriaan: Awesome. Talking about network, Lucy, what is the best way for the audience to connect with you?

Lucy: Reach out. I'm generally happy to connect. I think giving back is really important. I've gotten some incredible value from my network over the years, so I will always take the time for conversations where I can fit them in. I’m generally someone who responds when you reach out.

Adriaan: And I can fully echo that because that's how I've always perceived you. We've hosted some incredible events together, and it was never a question of "why," it was just "let's find a date." I totally recommend our listeners reach out to Lucy. Incredible person. Thank you so much for being on the podcast today; it was an absolute pleasure. We'll put everything in the show notes. I hope to see you soon.

Lucy: Fantastic. Thanks so much. Great to see you again.